the pro-war christian fundamentalism

[streicher]

Here we got a key of danger for war. With words of godfear like these war is proclaimed as a necessity:

“I think we could have an explosion in the Middle East. It could turn the whole region into a cauldron and destroy the War on Terror.” Brent Scowcroft, National Security Adviser, Bush Sr.

As the religious right gains ground in the U.S., accompanied by politicians evoking the god-fearing values of good and evil, a culture honoring diversity is replaced by calls for apocalyptic war.

As always, the schoolyard has become a major political battleground. Hysteria over removing "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance aside, the latest educational minefield lies in the origins of life: namely a return to the 1925 Scopes Trial debate of evolution vs. creationism. To promote Christianity, Cobb County, Georgia is putting disclaimers on its science textbooks saying that evolution is "a theory, not a fact," and school districts from Kansas to Ohio are enmeshed in battles royale over an issue that should be settled in a country separating church and state.

Not that bible-banging U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft is troubled by the far right's assault on the First Amendment; claiming "I think all we should legislate is morality," the man charged with upholding the Constitution has instead slowly dissected it to fit his far-right Assemblies of God ideals.

And then there's Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia's insisting "the religious viewpoint should have a role in the legislative and political process." Speaking at the University of Chicago earlier this year, Scalia cited the New Testament to assert government, "derives its moral authority from God ... to execute wrath, including even wrath by the sword," adding, "the more Christian a country is, the less likely it is to regard the death penalty as immoral ... for the believing Christian, death is no big deal."

What is religion used for? On what kind of god do they build there standpoint and argumentation? I'd say: better leave christianity if it is that way and helps to bloodshed.

Better let us put it this way (as the author of the article):

Ultimately, rather than glorifying in the sinners "left behind" to face torturous battles with the anti-Christ, we should focus on helping those left behind by today's unbalanced social and economic systems. Through diversity and tolerance we all are lifted up; through small-minded arrogance and greed we all lose.

Source:
Praying for Armageddon

 

[Tarvoc]

Well, it seems those guys didn't realize what "Christianity" really means...

 

[streicher]

It is incredible by the way how many writers write about the fulfilling of the prophecies of revelation. To be true: I kind of hate this book. Fundamental believers are more or less pushed into a position of waiting and enduring the endtime. Kind of mind control going on in a lot of churches over there.

 

[Tarvoc]

 

[streicher]

I meant many Christians over there have got the mentality of something like: "the endtime has to come like it is written in book of revelation." They think the future is planned which somehow prevents them from being politically active - a phenomenom the politicians can use (and do use) for their benefit.

What then ist Christianity? Its interpretation... But don't believe in the book of revelation!

 

[Tarvoc]

I meant many Christians over there have got the mentality of something like: "the endtime has to come like it is written in book of revelation." They think the future is planned which somehow prevents them from being politically active - a phenomenom the politicians can use (and do use) for their benefit.

What then ist Christianity? Its interpretation... But don't believe in the book of revelation!

Well... no!
It's not that they believe in the book of revelation, it's how they believe in it. I also believe in prophecies.
But I don't think that future is completely planned. If that was true, prophecies would be useless, because where is the use in knowing the future without having a chance of changing it.
It's what I call the Jonas-effect: A prophecy is made to prevent humanity from fulfilling it.

 

[streicher]

So some create a prophecy and work to fulfill it and others try to prevent it. (?)

 

[Tarvoc]

Correct!

 

[streicher]

Correct!

Sounds good.

 

[Tarvoc]

Yah!

 

[streicher]

I'd call this a conspiracy.

 

[McDozer]

What sorta rules do you have in mind, "Neue Regeln...&q

Sometimes you sound so brainwashed that one could assume you're one of "them" instead of one of the resistance... Sure, the whole world is raging mad against fundemantalism, that's one of their biggest enemies!
If you can make people who believe in the Bible look like the biggest maniacs around & strip them of any credibility, they'll strip the Bible of its credibility, too. I bet my ass you believe in Evolution. Well, if you REALLY want some truth, I dare you to read James Perloff's book "Tornado In A Junk Yard". You guys are starting to find out you're being fooled, but you don't have the slightest clue as to which degree!
Do you think the conspiracy just started with George Bush? Where do you think they'd be without Darwin? And besides, what's YOUR answer to it all, what are the glorious new rules you've got to offer to the World? I can imagine that God's simple rule of LOVE as outlined in the Bible is way too simple for you, huh? The greatest victory for the dark forces that rules this world is that they actually achieved to have the masses think they're really smart & educated, when actually they're as dumb as ever & believing a lot of baloney that THEY themselves are laughing their head off about - INCLUDING the theory of evolution & a bunch of other crap they dumped on you & you call "Science". Just because some gun slinger calls himself a Christian doesn't make him one for real. Just because some guys dress up like Indians & burn a British ship in Boston's harbour doesn't mean the Indians started the war for US independence. Just because Nero blamed the Christians & Hitler blamed the Jews doesn't make it so... don't you get it?

 

[streicher]

A Christian must not be a Christian: we know that. But please don't tell me that Paul was or ever converted: he infiltrated the Christians with his kind of dogmas and helped to lay foundation for a new religion meanwhile the Christians were still persecuted and being killed - and that is some fact that Christians nowadays do not grap. Paul worked as an agent and took a lot of ideas from the Mithras-cult. And please note that the god of Israel was for sure not the Father God of Jesus. This is absolute nonsense. Who killed him then? Who did the Pharisees serve? And by the way: nobody said here that the Bible here is not to be taken serious.

Evolution? As the theory is handled it becomes more like modern scientific religion or dogma. I'd say: don't believe anything and search for the truth. And better do not take for granted.

And now to Bush and Ashcroft and that kind of guys: is it not too obvious how they misuse religion and the believe of many in the US for their goals. It is not a new phenomen - no - it is horribly old - but it still seems to work.

 

[McDozer]

A Glimpse Of Hope?

At least you're one of the few sincere genuine seekers of truth on this block! As far as Paul goes: I think you're definitely wrong here, as Paul was the first to obey Jesus' commandment to got into all the world & preach the gospel to every creature, including the gentiles, otherwise there never would have been a Christian who was not a Jew. Peter & the others followed Paul's example. And he was definitely inspired by the Holy Ghost, which, if YOU were, you could tell.
As far as the god of the Pharisees: Jesus Himself told them who their god was in John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil..." The Illuminati was in its original form always present in Israel (Solomon, one of Israel's greatest kings, became just as important to the occult as he was to the Jews & later Christians by his writings...). Why do you think the message of God's prophets to Israel was almost always one of doom? That same message can be applied to most of today's churches, which have been bought & bribed by the Illuminati & their countless little witchcraft branches...

 

[Tarvoc]

@ McDozer:
Paulus definitely perverted the words of Jesus! For one example, Paulus said "You have to obey the government, for it is god-given." That was absolutely against everything Jesus said! Jesus was always a rebel and working against the government. Paulus was antisemite, and that also was against everything Jesus had been teaching. I could give you a hundred more hints just by using the bible!

But that's not all! There are other sources to learn about this time! The Qumran scripts tell that Johannes the Baptist (Jesus' cousin, not the evangelist!) was an Essenian. Because Johannes was Jesus' teacher and mentor, it seems likely to think that Jesus also was Essenian, that also seems likely because Jesus' teachings are very close to the Essenian scripts. I also believe the first christian community to be essenian (the evening meal comes from the Essenian tradition, as well as the baptism). If that's true, calling Jesus a god would be a perversion of everyting he believed in!
All evangeliums are written after Paulus' "reformation" (Well, it's not fully clear if the Johannes evangelium isn't older, because it contains parts of the Qumran scripts. But even if it's older, it definitely was altered later). That's the problem: We have no scripts of persons that really knew Jesus. (Well, the Vatikan has, but that is another story...)

 

[McDozer]

Well,...

I personally believe much more in what Jesus' own apostles Matthew & John had to say, Words that work & have transformed countless lives from emoty meaningless existences to happy ones, than any alleged accounts of "essenians"... Guess the truth is just too plain simple, huh!?
As far as what paul said about government, he was right, for the powers that be ARE ordained of God, as is stated throughout the Old Testament, too, and we are to obey them as long as that obedience desn't interfere with our obedience to God. Jesus Himself said, "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's & to God that which is His"... As far as paul being an anti-semitist:
Are ya kiddin'??? He was a Jew of the Jews, direct descendant of David, & he persecuted the early Christians in the name of the Jewish Sanhedrin!
His conversion was a miracle & He dug what the Salvation was all about before any of the others really did. Of course, if you don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah, you'll never agree with me... There will one come in his own name, whom you WILL believe!

 

[Tarvoc]

Re: Well,...

As far as paul being an anti-semitist:
Are ya kiddin'??? He was a Jew of the Jews, direct descendant of David, & he persecuted the early Christians in the name of the Jewish Sanhedrin!

No, that's not a joke, it's just another anti-semitism than you think.
Paulus was no racial antisemit, but a religious one. He thought all Jews that didn't convert to Christianity were evil and also said that.

There will one come in his own name, whom you WILL believe!

You are correct. His name will be "Chiren".

 

[McDozer]

In that case...

"All hail to the great leader Chiren!" -- Unless you've been one of those countless ones who are being fooled with another "revelation"...

 

[streicher]

Re: A Glimpse Of Hope?

At least you're one of the few sincere genuine seekers of truth on this block! As far as Paul goes: I think you're definitely wrong here, as Paul was the first to obey Jesus' commandment to got into all the world & preach the gospel to every creature, including the gentiles, otherwise there never would have been a Christian who was not a Jew. Peter & the others followed Paul's example. And he was definitely inspired by the Holy Ghost, which, if YOU were, you could tell.
As far as the god of the Pharisees: Jesus Himself told them who their god was in John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil..." The Illuminati was in its original form always present in Israel (Solomon, one of Israel's greatest kings, became just as important to the occult as he was to the Jews & later Christians by his writings...). Why do you think the message of God's prophets to Israel was almost always one of doom? That same message can be applied to most of today's churches, which have been bought & bribed by the Illuminati & their countless little witchcraft branches...

Hi again!

Well, first of all: be careful while talking about witchcraft. Look in the old testament. We got an example of a 'classic wizard' there. This guy was chosen to lead a selected people out of slavery - indeed - Moses. Moses is always shown with a beard and a stick while having his arguments with Pharao (who was by the way stubborned by the LORD of Moses). What did this guy do? Well, he was showing up a little more than the wizards of Egpyt. :-> The Bible is talking about something like witchcraft here. Of course doing and trying these kinds of things or any witchcraft was forbidden to the people: the LORD would have lost control.

Or think of the calf Aaron put up: how come that Aaron misled the Israelites? Did not Aaron mislead them? Who was punished? The Israelites! Stricter laws - it is that easy. Aaron stayed in position. So this action can be seen as a method to suppress the people - mislead and punish. The politicians stay in control - authorized by the LORD. But does that not hint us that in the desert the leaders and the people did serve several 'gods'?

Look at the law in the old testament. What do you recognize? A law which is similar to today's Scharia. This just is a hint that the same (kind of) evil powers still do their politics as in the days of Moses and Aaron.

Now to the psalms. What are they? - The psalms are callings. This can be seen as witchcraft by the way. Did you know that scriptures exist that correspond with the psalms. The 'Christians' seem not to recognize that there are some hidden powers in the book they consider holy. Why do some of them just use verses of the very book to argue? To tell you the way I see that: this is a kind of closed system they are shut in: can also been seen as witchcraft. And this used by the personalities that know - be sure of that.

Better jugde the gods by their mentality - not just by the way you are told - not to jugde. Much is hidden to you - isn't that occult?

 

[agentP]

Well, if you REALLY want some truth, I dare you to read James Perloff's book "Tornado In A Junk Yard".

Very interesting ! On the one hand you call "us" brainwashed on the other hand you seem to believe that it´s enough to read one book to know the truth. Funny guy, aren´t you ?

You may believe whatever you want. If you believe that "There will one come in his own name, whom you WILL believe!", then o.k., he shall come and perhaps if he has a lot of better arguments than you have I will believe, but at the moment HE is not in sight and I doubt that he´s even about to book his ticket.
The method of threatening people with some diffuse "Black Man" that will come and take revenge for any misbehaviour or give reward for being nice may work with children, especially when christmas time is near, but are you really willing to tell these fairy tales to adults ?